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As I have had the opportunity to read this poem and research it myself, I have come to the conclusion that our previous statement is lacking due to its incredibly focused theme on a very minor detail.
In the fist stanza, the in the woman in the poem thinks about the sacrifices that were made to the Judeo-Christian God in the past and calls them a 'catastrophe'. She then thinks of the 'Holy Land' of Palestine as a 'dominion of blood and sepulchre', which is a type of burial chamber. She then asks why a single image brought on by a vision or dream (the most ways people have claimed to see God) is worthy of worship. She finds comfort in earthly things of nature such as the sun, fruit, and colorful things and equates them to heaven (lower case 'h').
She finds her spiritualism through nature and its natural processes, which is a type of paganism. In the seventh stanza, she describes a group of people worshiping the sun 'not as a god (lower case 'g'), but as a god might be'. They worshipers are also described as naked which is a common practice in group pagan worship.
The process of birth, which is the corner stone of most major religions, is brought up when she thinks about 'Jove in the clouds had his inhuman birth' and when she thinks how nature makes our blood want to 'commingle'. Jove is a reference to the Greek god Jupiter or (a.k.a Zeus). She acknowledges him as a being of inhuman birth, but that human birth requires actual 'intercourse' (this is what she means by blood). Of course, if this is the case, then the miracle of the virgin birth of Jesus is impossible.
Death is mentioned when she thinks of Jesus still in his grave. The miracle of resurrection is a myth to her and death is a form of 'chaos' and random happen stance, there is no order or reason for it (stanza 8).
The title 'Sunday Morning' is an ironic one, as the poem tells us what a woman thinks about on a day that is suppose to be holy in a Judeo-Christan society.
The poem does speak a lot about religion, but I do think that there is more to it. I think that the line "Death is the mother of beauty" is the most prominent one in the poem, and it is not explicitly connected to a belief system. It sounds a lot more like a philosophical musing; if nothing ever died, people would take things for granted. When you give anything an ending point, it changes the way we look at it. We don't really ever realize how much something means to us until it's gone, because we fall into this pattern of always expecting it.
When we lose something, we remember details that we wouldn't care about normally. We admire qualities that might have annoyed us on a daily basis. It might seem a bit counter-intuitive to say that death is necesary for beauty. The fact is, knowing that everything comes to an end allows us to appreciate them in the first place. So, can you live a life that's beautiful...forever? I don't think so. I think Wallace Stevens only enhances his poem by adding this line.
Danielle's comment about the line "Death is the mother of beauty" made me immediately think of the line from Keats's poem "Beauty is truth, truth beauty." In the blog about that poem, I said that it seems like Keats is saying some beauty is unquestionable rather than an opinion. The line from this poem confirms that. Death is absolute, so if death is the mother of beauty, then beauty must also be absolute. Truth, if it actually is truth, is absolute, as well. Mr. Bruno said in the other blog that the way "Beauty is truth, truth beauty" is written, then "the most beautiful thing in the world is a truthful circle." Beauty, truth, and death also make a circle of absolutes, each relating to each other. This may be a little far-fetched, but there is also "the circle of life" which is full of beauty, and ends in death.
Definitely... This poem *is* about the absoluteness of death, but not necessarily using religious symbolism. Sure, there are certainly some religious undertones to be found, but they're not the main component of the story.
Gregg's comments are convincing. Danielle's, Jenna's, and Luke's also. And yet again, I AM CONFUSED. As much as I hate being confused and not understanding something, I love that feeling I get when I can make SOME sense of something.
Death is the ultimate. Beauty has nothing on death.
I don't really agree with Jenna, I don't think that beauty is the same beauty that we as people can understand. I think that the beauty in which these poems refer to is more about the Truth and life itself, and all the unknowns that people don't know make it beautiful when we understand. I do agree with the other comments and that the poem is about death's definate. Aida, I think that death and beauty are realted. I always hear that death is beautiful, and I think that the Beauty they are referring to is something that only that "soul" experiences and God can see.
"Shall our blood fail? Or shall it come to be The blood of paradise? And shall the earth Seem all of paradise that we shall know?
"Death is the mother of beauty; hence from her, Alone, shall come fulfillment to our dreams And our desires."
"Is there no change of death in paradise? Does ripe fruit never fall? Or do the boughs Hang always heavy in that perfect sky, Unchanging..."
"Death is the mother of beauty, mystical, Within whose burning bosom we devise Our earthly mothers waiting, sleeplessly."
"The tomb in Palestine Is not the porch of spirits lingering. It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay."
From these lines I have come to the conclusion that this poem was intended to make the reader view religion and death in completely different ways. First off, the lady is comtemplating all of this on Easter Sunday which is supposed to the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. Then she brings about the idea that instead of going to Heaven we might enter an earthly paradise of being returnd to the soil. She questions whether eternal life is a good thing since death is beauty and nothing will ever go away so it will get redundant. Then finally to close it out the girl states that Jesus is still laying in the ground in Palestine. I agree with Greg's comments about Paganism because that is what I instantly thought when I read the poem the first time. Christianity wanted to destroy the Pagan religion and make them convert to their sect. (That's why some of our holidays are what they are such as Christmas. Jesus was not born on December 25th the Church just uses that day because it used to be an important Pagan holiday and they wanted an easy conversion for them.) Overall I feel this poem is controversial and that's what makes it great. It poses questions that should be asked and tells people to respect this paradise before they go wandering off and dreaming off a future one.
You all intimidate me! I thought this poem was way too boring and I could hardly concentrate while reading it. I read what Danielle had to say and I read it again and tried to make some sense of it. However, when Danielle mentioned the line about "Death is the mother of beauty" I completely felt like I understood the poem better. Maybe it didn't stand out to me so much when I read the poem, but it makes much more sense! Everyone always knows you never appreciate something as much as you really should until you lose it!! It's just a fact of life that takes a couple of failed attempts to grasp, and maybe you never really do understand it. Anyways, this poem seems like the poet really just wanted to make it perfectly clear that you should really pay attention and appreciate things before they're gone and you can't have them back.
Once again I must agree with Tyler, and with the conversation we had today in class about how Beaowulf was changed to into a Judo-Christianity themed novel over time. Christianity was a powerful empire back in the middle ages in literature and in conquering lands. Yet, by conquering lands and changing literature the original piece was destroyed and it's true beauty lost.
I agree with the fact that the speaker is trying to portray the fact that the state of death is a very permamnent one, however i didnt quite pick up on the religious tone of it. I feel that the poem did have a tone of regret that he felt from not being able to appreciate what he had before it was gone. Everyday and everything you hold dear to your heart should never be taken for granted and you should appreciate what you have before its gone.
I believe that the speaker implies that beauty and happiness derive from change. However she also portrays death as the change that results in beauty. The speaker claims that even though death appears to be the end, she reveals that there is a renewed beginning that replaces the dead. She analyzes this through the context of Christ's death. Something new is brought through his death: his resurrection and new life for sinnners.
In class when we had to come up with a statement about the poem I had a gut feeling this statement wasn't adequate enough but was having difficulty attempting to come up with something to say about the poem. What everyone has said has been wonderful and enlightening. The poem does talk about death and how it surrounds us. Death is inescapable and that is the beauty of it. Not being able to run away from it and how swift it can happen makes it so chilling that it is beautiful. So I guess the person is admiring the beauty of death.
I agree that the poem is about death and its absoluteness, however I feel that there is something more to it; however, Icannot figure out what that something is. But I do agree with Aida, I am absolutely confused.
I don't totally agree with this because to me this poem felt more like a woman, presumably the authors wife, or hopefully, she was just thinking of grander things and how permanent almost everything is, not necessarily just religion and how it is larger than life, but everything and how she is so little and her actions are so permanent
okay, so my take on this whole topic is that what it all boils down to is that unfortuately death conqures all. everything in the universe lives and dies, including beauty, because when something that conatins the value of beauty as it dies it looses it's beauty therefore beauty dies with it. right? but then again when looked at in a certian light death can be seen as beauty can't it? because when something dies it is given a chance at "afterlife" or to be reborn in the spring time (but only if it is some type of plant. so in reality aren't beauty and death interchangeable?
As I have had the opportunity to read this poem and research it myself, I have come to the conclusion that our previous statement is lacking due to its incredibly focused theme on a very minor detail.
ReplyDeleteIn the fist stanza, the in the woman in the poem thinks about the sacrifices that were made to the Judeo-Christian God in the past and calls them a 'catastrophe'. She then thinks of the 'Holy Land' of Palestine as a 'dominion of blood and sepulchre', which is a type of burial chamber. She then asks why a single image brought on by a vision or dream (the most ways people have claimed to see God) is worthy of worship. She finds comfort in earthly things of nature such as the sun, fruit, and colorful things and equates them to heaven (lower case 'h').
She finds her spiritualism through nature and its natural processes, which is a type of paganism. In the seventh stanza, she describes a group of people worshiping the sun 'not as a god (lower case 'g'), but as a god might be'. They worshipers are also described as naked which is a common practice in group pagan worship.
The process of birth, which is the corner stone of most major religions, is brought up when she thinks about 'Jove in the clouds had his inhuman birth' and when she thinks how nature makes our blood want to 'commingle'. Jove is a reference to the Greek god Jupiter or (a.k.a Zeus). She acknowledges him as a being of inhuman birth, but that human birth requires actual 'intercourse' (this is what she means by blood). Of course, if this is the case, then the miracle of the virgin birth of Jesus is impossible.
Death is mentioned when she thinks of Jesus still in his grave. The miracle of resurrection is a myth to her and death is a form of 'chaos' and random happen stance, there is no order or reason for it (stanza 8).
The title 'Sunday Morning' is an ironic one, as the poem tells us what a woman thinks about on a day that is suppose to be holy in a Judeo-Christan society.
The poem does speak a lot about religion, but I do think that there is more to it. I think that the line "Death is the mother of beauty" is the most prominent one in the poem, and it is not explicitly connected to a belief system. It sounds a lot more like a philosophical musing; if nothing ever died, people would take things for granted. When you give anything an ending point, it changes the way we look at it. We don't really ever realize how much something means to us until it's gone, because we fall into this pattern of always expecting it.
ReplyDeleteWhen we lose something, we remember details that we wouldn't care about normally. We admire qualities that might have annoyed us on a daily basis. It might seem a bit counter-intuitive to say that death is necesary for beauty. The fact is, knowing that everything comes to an end allows us to appreciate them in the first place. So, can you live a life that's beautiful...forever? I don't think so. I think Wallace Stevens only enhances his poem by adding this line.
Danielle's comment about the line "Death is the mother of beauty" made me immediately think of the line from Keats's poem "Beauty is truth, truth beauty." In the blog about that poem, I said that it seems like Keats is saying some beauty is unquestionable rather than an opinion. The line from this poem confirms that. Death is absolute, so if death is the mother of beauty, then beauty must also be absolute. Truth, if it actually is truth, is absolute, as well. Mr. Bruno said in the other blog that the way "Beauty is truth, truth beauty" is written, then "the most beautiful thing in the world is a truthful circle." Beauty, truth, and death also make a circle of absolutes, each relating to each other. This may be a little far-fetched, but there is also "the circle of life" which is full of beauty, and ends in death.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely... This poem *is* about the absoluteness of death, but not necessarily using religious symbolism. Sure, there are certainly some religious undertones to be found, but they're not the main component of the story.
ReplyDeleteGregg's comments are convincing. Danielle's, Jenna's, and Luke's also. And yet again, I AM CONFUSED. As much as I hate being confused and not understanding something, I love that feeling I get when I can make SOME sense of something.
ReplyDeleteDeath is the ultimate.
Beauty has nothing on death.
Right?
I don't really agree with Jenna, I don't think that beauty is the same beauty that we as people can understand. I think that the beauty in which these poems refer to is more about the Truth and life itself, and all the unknowns that people don't know make it beautiful when we understand.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with the other comments and that the poem is about death's definate.
Aida, I think that death and beauty are realted. I always hear that death is beautiful, and I think that the Beauty they are referring to is something that only that "soul" experiences and God can see.
"Shall our blood fail? Or shall it come to be The blood of paradise? And shall the earth Seem all of paradise that we shall know?
ReplyDelete"Death is the mother of beauty; hence from her,
Alone, shall come fulfillment to our dreams
And our desires."
"Is there no change of death in paradise?
Does ripe fruit never fall? Or do the boughs
Hang always heavy in that perfect sky,
Unchanging..."
"Death is the mother of beauty, mystical,
Within whose burning bosom we devise
Our earthly mothers waiting, sleeplessly."
"The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay."
From these lines I have come to the conclusion that this poem was intended to make the reader view religion and death in completely different ways. First off, the lady is comtemplating all of this on Easter Sunday which is supposed to the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. Then she brings about the idea that instead of going to Heaven we might enter an earthly paradise of being returnd to the soil. She questions whether eternal life is a good thing since death is beauty and nothing will ever go away so it will get redundant. Then finally to close it out the girl states that Jesus is still laying in the ground in Palestine. I agree with Greg's comments about Paganism because that is what I instantly thought when I read the poem the first time. Christianity wanted to destroy the Pagan religion and make them convert to their sect. (That's why some of our holidays are what they are such as Christmas. Jesus was not born on December 25th the Church just uses that day because it used to be an important Pagan holiday and they wanted an easy conversion for them.) Overall I feel this poem is controversial and that's what makes it great. It poses questions that should be asked and tells people to respect this paradise before they go wandering off and dreaming off a future one.
You all intimidate me! I thought this poem was way too boring and I could hardly concentrate while reading it. I read what Danielle had to say and I read it again and tried to make some sense of it. However, when Danielle mentioned the line about "Death is the mother of beauty" I completely felt like I understood the poem better. Maybe it didn't stand out to me so much when I read the poem, but it makes much more sense! Everyone always knows you never appreciate something as much as you really should until you lose it!! It's just a fact of life that takes a couple of failed attempts to grasp, and maybe you never really do understand it. Anyways, this poem seems like the poet really just wanted to make it perfectly clear that you should really pay attention and appreciate things before they're gone and you can't have them back.
ReplyDeleteOnce again I must agree with Tyler, and with the conversation we had today in class about how Beaowulf was changed to into a Judo-Christianity themed novel over time. Christianity was a powerful empire back in the middle ages in literature and in conquering lands. Yet, by conquering lands and changing literature the original piece was destroyed and it's true beauty lost.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that the speaker is trying to portray the fact that the state of death is a very permamnent one, however i didnt quite pick up on the religious tone of it. I feel that the poem did have a tone of regret that he felt from not being able to appreciate what he had before it was gone. Everyday and everything you hold dear to your heart should never be taken for granted and you should appreciate what you have before its gone.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the speaker implies that beauty and happiness derive from change. However she also portrays death as the change that results in beauty. The speaker claims that even though death appears to be the end, she reveals that there is a renewed beginning that replaces the dead. She analyzes this through the context of Christ's death. Something new is brought through his death: his resurrection and new life for sinnners.
ReplyDeleteIn class when we had to come up with a statement about the poem I had a gut feeling this statement wasn't adequate enough but was having difficulty attempting to come up with something to say about the poem. What everyone has said has been wonderful and enlightening. The poem does talk about death and how it surrounds us. Death is inescapable and that is the beauty of it. Not being able to run away from it and how swift it can happen makes it so chilling that it is beautiful. So I guess the person is admiring the beauty of death.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the poem is about death and its absoluteness, however I feel that there is something more to it; however, Icannot figure out what that something is. But I do agree with Aida, I am absolutely confused.
ReplyDeleteI don't totally agree with this because to me this poem felt more like a woman, presumably the authors wife, or hopefully, she was just thinking of grander things and how permanent almost everything is, not necessarily just religion and how it is larger than life, but everything and how she is so little and her actions are so permanent
ReplyDeleteokay, so my take on this whole topic is that what it all boils down to is that unfortuately death conqures all. everything in the universe lives and dies, including beauty, because when something that conatins the value of beauty as it dies it looses it's beauty therefore beauty dies with it. right? but then again when looked at in a certian light death can be seen as beauty can't it? because when something dies it is given a chance at "afterlife" or to be reborn in the spring time (but only if it is some type of plant. so in reality aren't beauty and death interchangeable?
ReplyDelete