Hey guys, I know we went through this one a while back, but I thought maybe we rushed it a little or not everyone got to say how they felt on the issue. I want to address the question I asked at the end of our Brave New World discussion, which was: Which would you rather live in, 1984 or Brave New World, and why? I recognized that it seemed to be a heated discussion right when we started, which I thought was pretty cool, so if you guys wanna go into it more, then here ya go.
Like I said in class, I would go with 1984 for a couple of reasons. It seems to me like Brave New World is just pleasure pleasure pleasure, and don't get me wrong, pleasure is pretty nice, haha, but I like it to mean something every now and then too. In Brave New World, the pleasure would be pointless and unsatisfying because you would be so drugged up every single day and conditioned that you wouldn't know anything else. In 1984, at least there's the possibility of finding something more than what the society has, even if it may get you killed in the end, at least there was that brief period where you did rebel and live your life.
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I think I would have to agree with Andy in saying that I would choose to live in a world similar to that of 1984 than that of Brave New World. When reading Brave New World, I was disturbed most by the decreased value of life. Humans were mass produced through advancements in science, for they were created in test tubes. With this mass production, existence loses its value. Child birth is no longer sacred because it is not an occurrence. In addition, with the lack of natural child birth, the value of the original means of reproduction is lost as well. Sex is a casual occurrence used solely for pleasure, therefore its significance in the relationship is lost. In addition, there is no longer a connection between a mother and her child for it is non existent. I would much rather live in a world of fear and have the ability to think against society than live in a world of pleasure in which my future were predetermined. If pleasure is all one knows than its value is lost for it cannot be compared to a lesser emotion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Andy and Heather, please isn't anything unless you have a feeling to compare it to. Being loved doesn't feel as good until you've known what it feels like to be hated - I think I read that somewhere.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a pretty hard decision since both societies are very appealing, but I think I’d rather live in 1984. Brave New World is just a lukewarmly content society, a place without passion. But passion is like the basis of every other emotion and helps you form you own views. So a lack of passion makes for a pretty boring world. Sure you can have whatever you like, but you don’t /love/ anything.
ReplyDeleteAt least in a world where Big Brother is watching, you are capable of feeling passion. Just having the /ability/ to express a desire for something is better than nothing, although Anna’s blog about Big Brother creating rebels challenges whether the passion is real or not.
I think I’m going to have to disagree with everyone on this one. Yes, Bnw is a horrible fate, and we need to watch and make sure our society doesn’t follow suit, but there is NO WAY I would ever EVER want to live in a society like 1984. EVER. In 1984, at least how I understand it, people don’t exist. All you have is the party, who plays with people as a child might act out a drama with dolls. People are inanimate until picked up by Big Brother’s hands, and in the echoes of what used to exist, Big Brother continually plays and replays rebellion, defeat, and rebirth. Big Brother himself doesn’t even exist. Because there is nothing and no one to witness his existence, he does not exist. Therefore 1984 is like a ghost society that loops over and over the fears and struggles of what used to be mankind. Like a tree falling in a forest when no one’s around to hear, when mankind dies, does anybody notice? No. Apparently, mankind didn’t notice either, and is completely unaware of the fact that it is dead. Maybe I’ve gone to far with my interpretation, but I think I’d rather not risk it. Besides, BNW isn’t half bad.
ReplyDeleteIf we’re going to compare the two books, let’s use equivalent characters to base it on. Syme from 1984 and Helmholtz from BNW are practically identical, as far as they can be. They are both high(ish) ranking common people, fine upstanding members of society, and both very involved in literature. If we were to be placed in either society, it’s fair to assume we would be very similar to these characters. (we are in AP English, after all.) Also, they are both much to smart for their own good. In 1984, Syme is vaporized for being dangerously intelligent. Poof, he’s gone. The end. Big Brother wasn’t terribly interested in him; he wasn’t allowed to stew in rebellious thought like Big Brother’s pet Winston was. So there’s that option. On the other hand, we have Helmholtz, who is singled out for his avid interest in language. He gets to go to a private island isolated for the specific purpose of letting nonconformist be themselves. He probably won’t change the world, but given time, a small society of intelligent Alphas might arise and bring a small slice of humanity back to the world. True, we don’t know for certain that this island really is what Mustafa Mond says it is, but the author doesn’t give us any reason not to trust him. I for one believe he is telling the truth. And we know that the world society is open to this sort of “island experimenting”. After all, they once allowed an entire country of Alphas to have self-rule. BNW believes itself to be invincible, and that could very well be their downfall. 1984 on the other hand IS invincible, because there is no one left to take it on. BNW has hope, and because of that small faintly glimmering chance I would choose to live in BNW’s world.
Plus, if none of that worked out, I would rather be forever comfortable than forever uncomfortable. Faced with the choice of being shallow or being tortured, I choose shallow. ;)
Well, two things, first I definitly would rather go with 1984 than Brave New World. Second, I'm going to have to disagree with Anna about the horrors of 1984. While yes there is only the party, and people have all but ceased to exist, in BNW there isn't even the party. There is no fixture, no constant, nothing exists, not you, not those around you, and not even a government structure. After all who needs it. In 1984 the government oppresses the people, in BNW the people oppress themselves. In 1984 people actualy feel, in BNW they live in a lukewarm society that feels nothing, after all emotion leads to unrest. In 1984, you still have the freedom to feel, still have the freedom to rebel, in BNW what is there to rebel against?
ReplyDeleteI think for me...I would prefer 1984. Like Shep said, I would rather have that feeling of emotion instead in BNW where if I remember correctly, the people were programmed not to live out of the ordinary.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, 1984 scared the bejesits out of me. I could never be able to live in an enviroment where my thoughts were constantly policed and not my own. I could survive under tyranny of surroundings, but not of the mind. If I were to decide among these worlds, I would choose Brave New World. If all that governed me was impulse and desire, I would at least live in some form of contentment, and that would be alright, I guess...
ReplyDeleteSome of you guys should have spoke up in class when we were discussing this lovely question of Andy's because I seem to remember the consensus that day was more towards Brave New World. But anyways, I would chose to live in 1984. At least then there's the active enemy, Big Brother, at least then there's a possibly of resistance, in the underlings (sorry I can't remember their official name) and at least there there is a chance that the situation could be changed. In Brave New World, people never stood a chance. They were the computers that were programmed. Sure there were a few exceptions, but we're talking about an intense and misguided minority. I don't like the thought of being watched over like in 1984, but the reckless abandon in Brave New World is so much worse.
ReplyDeleteNot knowing or believing anything I believe now, I would rather live in A Brave New World. I wouldn't walk around everyday having to wonder if someone's eyes are tearing apart everything I do or say, worry about my children turning me in because I had a dream.
ReplyDeletealthough brave new world would be the more fun society, for obvious reasons, 1984 has a society that is so much more free in a way. they do not loose the relationship of a mother to a child in 1984 the way they do in brave new world. this is an essential part to human nature and gives life so much more meaning. like andy said, brave new world would be fun. but meaningless. both societies attempt to stop people from feeling emotion to an extent but brave new world does so on a whole other level. without meaning to anything we do, we are left wondering why we do it in the first place. answer: because we were told to. and then another question arises: why do i have to listen to them? this will get you killed in 1984 but by acting upon it at least some part of your life will have meaning.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone has heard or seen the music video "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2" by Pink Floyd but that song kind of reminds me of 1984. Anyway, I would prefer 1984 because I feel like although there may be consequences for having feelings, at least you can have them. In Brave New World it's like you are programmed and ignorant to understanding. In 1984 you are just not allowed to have "thoughtcrimes" of understanding. Plus I think it would be more likely to be able to overthrow or escape 1984's government than in Brave New World.
ReplyDeleteBtw, if you watch that music video then you should also see the Apple Mac commercial for 1984. Just some interesting things.
ReplyDeleteI would rather live in 1984 because I would not want to be the person who “killed” me. In BNW a person is not really human because they are replaced with synthetic emotions. This means basically if I was in BNW I would be dead. Also in BNW even as a baby there still isn’t any hope. In 1984 a person can try to protest/think but unfortunately that person will die or be punished (or both), but at least they had the chance do something they chose to do. This question is like the ethic talk that we had a while back, in BNW there are no ethics but in 1984 there are ethics; the only catch is that the choices against big brother makes someone kill you. In a broader perspective this choice is to have your ethic be controlled or to be punished for it. I would rather be punished for it.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could live in a world where pleasure was the only thing I had to worry about; where love and passion and pain and conflict and struggle was none exsistant. But then I thought about how much I'd be missing, like music or creativity or the amazing feeling one gets AFTER they've come out of something horrible. At least i 1984, there were things one could feel, it was just a risk. I'd live in fear, but at least I could live.
ReplyDeleteand not just exist.
ReplyDelete