As you all remember, our discussion of the story Hunters in the Snow may have gotten somewhat confusing/contradicting/challenging on Thursday; I know for me it did. One thing that was definitely confusing me was how (if I heard this correctly) it requires both enjoyment and understanding to gain an experience from a short story, which gives us some insight into life. This statement confused me because Hunters in the Snow was really very unenjoyable to me in every aspect, however after our discussion I feel like I understand it more.
Basically, I was wondering if you guys feel like you must both enjoy and understand a piece of literature to fully gain the experience it is trying to convey. Post your response. As far as myself goes, I don't believe I gained a huge experience from this story so maybe it does take both?
Second Part: Now I don't quite remember the exact wording of the theme we developed from this story, but I think it went something like this: All people in the world develop relationships for the sole purpose of furthering their own status, confidence, or position in life. I don't know if that is completely right, but I do know the theme provoked many comments from all of us. If someone has the exact theme, post it and then everyone else should say how much truth they see in this statement, as for myself, I find it to be a rare occurrence, but I do think it is true, slightly though.
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There are plenty of things I have read and not enjoyed but have still gained some sort of experience from. Even if you don’t enjoy something you’ve read, acknowledge your dislike and move on. If you focus too much on the entertainment factor, the understanding part gets muddled. And that’s just no good.
ReplyDeleteI also think you have to take the various definitions of enjoy into account. Enjoy can mean to like/take pleasure in OR to use/benefit from. So you have to understand something to enjoy it (and vice versa) to gain any sort of (worthwhile) experience.
“People develop symbiotic relationships purely to further their own appetites without charity, love, or empathy.”
Here’s a question: If people form “symbiotic relationships” just to benefit themselves, what about relationships that benefit one party more than the other? And by “People” does that infer ‘ALL people’?
Try to avoid words like ALL, EVERY, ALWAYS, etc. Themes are generalizations, not absolutes.
ReplyDeleteI do not feel that one must enjoy and understand a piece of literature to fully gain the experience it is attempting to convey, however, I believe one will enjoy a piece if it has led he or she to understand the conveyed experience. I did not agree with the story’s theme, especially when it was applied to marriage. I do not feel a relationship can be considered a marriage if it exists for the sole purpose of furthering one’s own status, confidence, or position in life. I view marriage from a religious standpoint. I feel marriage is the unity of two individuals that emits the best of each partner through the emotion of love. In addition, this emotion promotes the greatest gift in life, another human being. Although the existence of a relationship for a selfish purpose is a possibility, I do not believe this relationship can be considered a marriage religiously. For example, as Mr. Bruno said in class, Donald Trump is an example of the theme’s idea. Although he was married in the governmental sense of the term, I do not feel he was married in the religious sense of the term if his marriage was for the sole purpose of furthering his own needs. My interpretation may not be understandable, but the theme of the short story provoked me to consider it in this light.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that you have to have enjoyment and understanding to gain something from a story. For example, I did not enjoy reading Lord of the Flies, but I am not able to imagine a little bit better what it would be like to be stranded on an island and the desperation that would come from trying to survive. The poem that Mr. Bruno read to us about the seventh grade boy who died from cancer was not an enjoyable poem to read. But, as Mr. Bruno pointed out to us, we've never experienced loosing a student to cancer but after reading that poem we have imagine the feelings that would come with that experience.
ReplyDeleteI don't enjoy everything we read in this class, in fact, I barely enjoy any of it, but most of the time I find myself learning a lesson from it in some way or another. In some way, it's kind of like the way the characters in the book are, they don't enjoy the bad situation they are in, but most of the time they learn from it (unless of course they're just dull characters), and it's also like in life for us: we don't enjoy the uninteresting stuff that happens, but sometimes that stuff teaches us a lot.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you necessarily have to enjoy a piece of literature to understand it. At the same time, though, I most enjoy literature that I can relate to, and the more I can relate the better I understand. I guess it also depends on your purpose of reading. If the literary piece is to be analyzed, critiqued, and studied, then I guess it does not matter if the piece is enjoyable. If, however, I am simply reading in my spare time and I find a piece overly disturbing, I am more likely to distance myself from the literary work and risk the chance of not developing an understanding of the work. I am not saying that a piece needs to be joyous to be enjoyable. It can be equally intriguing by tapping into other emotions such as sadness and fear, and therefore be enjoyable in another sense. Basically, if you are going to force yourself to analyze the piece, then no it doesn't have to be enjoyable. If you are reading on your own, it certainly helps you to further analyze if you like the piece.
ReplyDeleteAs for relationships, I think it is quite plausible to assume that some people form relationships in order to both benefit themselves and the other person/party. I honestly think relationships require both give and take. Then again, perhaps I really am just naive.
Just so we know, for some reason my post didn't give my last name, but the above post was from Kelly Austin.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it takes a couple times to really enjoy and appreciate something. I'm with you, Andy that the first time I read it, I didn't enjoy it. I read it again though, and that's when I started to think that maybe it's not bad.
ReplyDeleteHowever, enjoyment doesn't mean you can't learn something from it. Look at the death of a loved one, it's possibly the worst experience, but it can teach you something worth knowing.
First of all, Andy, you are amazing and should get 12,000 A+'s for posting all these blogs.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Portia, I've read many things where i didn't necessarily enjoy them, but i either learned a lesson from them or took a message away with me. I think many will agree with the fact that before we did our poetry unit we weren't all that thrilled about poetry. But now having seen that it's more than if you "enjoy" it, but its that you can learn from it, I at least have come to appreciate poetry, which in a way is "enjoying" it. I hope that all makes sense. Okay, for example: this is so weird and dumb, I know, but I love reading books that make me cry. I don't love crying, but I think it's that they make me put myself in that same situation and wonder how I would react and feel. Having the experience of putting my self into that situation is "enjoyable?"...I guess. Okay enough..
I dont think that you need to necessarily enjoy a short story, but in a way to understand is kinda enjoying it. From understanding it you gain an experience you can enjoy or learn from.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that you don't have to enjoy it, but it's good to understand it. And one may enjoy it after reading it the seventh time, it all depends on the person.
ReplyDeleteI don't think everyone thinks this way, but for a few it is a way of life. I know a couple people who only think life is a game(such as chess), and they know they are the pawn, but they hope one day they can be a queen or knight. They think that to gain a right of passage they have to gain status and rank through others. I thoroughly disagree with that way of thought. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense. I've known others who have used people just to gain something, a right of passage, sadly I had to learn the hard way as to what they were doing.
Though, I do believe in Kelly's ideals of forming relationships just for the sake of a relationship, just give and take, mutually. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't have the friends I have today.
I think that it is important to appreciate the work and to understand it as well It is hard to enjoy something that might not of your taste but it is still a piece of work and it should be appreciated. If it is good enough to remain exigent it is good enough to be appreciated.
ReplyDeleteAndy, you certainly seem to be on a thread starting roll.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, about understanding and enjoying literature...I think you are having a bit of trouble with this because you expect enjoyment to be like entertainment. To enjoy a piece of literature isn't quite the same as enjoying a box-office hit. It's more about appreciating the literature for what makes it literally, by enjoying the detail and care that the author put in. Understanding it basically means understanding, ha. I definitely understood the piece after discussing it in class, I'll tell you that.
I think the theme does apply, just not absolutely to ALL relationships and ALL people. I do think that a majority of people have developed such a relationship. Look at the teacher-student relationship for example. I don't necessarily feel charity, love, or empathy for all of my teachers, or them for me, but we have the relationship to benefit us both. The teacher has a job, for one, and I pass the class and go on to college (and maybe learning something?? Hmmm...) And not talkin' about you Mr. Bruno, don't you worry!
I think that some sort of experience is always gained when reading a book. But the enjoying part is something that I don't think everyone gets. Personally, I'm not a reader, but I love writing. As far as the theme goes, I don't believe EVERYONE makes relationships for their own personal gain. Like Andy said, it does happen sometimes, but to me it all depends on the person. I'm pretty sure I know who I am and I don't see me making friendships out of personal gain. I have a lot more respect for my friends than that.
ReplyDeleteAndy, it was people in symbiotic relationships, duh! I don't like a lot of the things we've read, but they all hold value, and can all teach us something resourceful and substantial. Reading sometimes isn't for just enjoyment (of the subject) but for understanding of the things we never could explain, or circumstances we'll never understand, or to gain another piece of humanity, stretched out over hundreds or thousands of years. So no, you don't have to enjoy the context of what you're reading always, but you must enjoy the little piece of assistance each writer gives you to help you understand life, a little better.
ReplyDeleteTHe Hunters in the Snow wasn't extremely intriguing or clever, but it showed an extreme side of people's selfishness and disregard for humanity, and this happens, all the time. I think its purpose was to challenge our perception of decency and how we treat people.
Kelly Robeson gets the gold star.
ReplyDeleteEnjoyment does not have to be "diversion"; rather, enjoyment can be the satisfaction of finally having figured out what the heck Shakespeare was taling about or getting a step ahead of Sherlock Holmes. Enjoyment can even be getting to the end of Frankenstein because now you no longer have to listen to Victor go on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
The idea is that you enjoy the literature you understand because it helps you find some general nugget of truth about life (good or bad) that helps you make sense of existence.
Story time:
I hate Barbados.
I have never been there. I don't plan on going there.
My reason for hating Barbados: the novel In the Castle of My Skin, a book I read in a college English seminar called "Caribbean Literature." It was long, boring, and generally unrewarding; however, when I finished, I had an epiphany about something I was puzzling through for another English class. I still have the book because it reminds me of the solution I came up with for that other novel, that other class.
So, did I enjoy the novel? No. But I still enjoyed the heck out of the experience I gained from reading it.