For decades, even centuries, prior to the writing of Frankenstein, female writers were either lampooned or unread. Even Mary Shelley's mother, Mary Wollstonecraft, was villified for her Vinidication of the Rights of Women. Even more humilitating, women in literature were objects to be looked at, drooled over, and admired from afar. There was no respect for women as thinking people or as talented writers.
Thus, some critics view Frankenstein as a novel about the monstrous nature of male imagination.
Do you think men's minds are so very devious that they would create the Creature of Shelley's tale?
Do you think women have more pure intentions in their imagined stories?
Is there proof 0f this assertion?
Is this assertion one you are making with the eyes of someone now or someone then?
Happy Thinking,
Mr. B
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In the 1980's, there was a man in Haiti who supposedly reanimated a a dead man, so it is not hard to believe that men are devious enough to create a 'a creature of Shelly's Tale'.
ReplyDeleteJesus raised people from the dead too, Phillip. I don't think he was devious (in that regards anyways. I would talk for a while how Jesus was devious but that's for another time). I've tried to make a connection to your first statement, Mr. Bruno, but I can't see it. Maybe because I am male. The story does seem a little pointless, aside from being a story about dreadful circumstances. I think I missed her whole point, but I thoroughly enjoyed the book and put some quotes in a note on my facebook. Good stuff.
ReplyDeleteThink about the way that Byron talks about women. "She walks in beauty like the night" is a perfect example of the "women should be seen, not heard" genre of writing. Then there is the donna angelicata tradition of sanctifying one's dead lover. Super creepy from one perspective, super awesome from others.
ReplyDeleteUMMMMMMMM..... I think Mary Shelley was writing against men's insessant views of women as an ornament on a christmas tree yes; you know, always taking out at the same time and put on the tree to blend in with all the other ornaments (not particularly important but something to make the project as a whole beautiful). However, nothing would have drawn my mind to that conclusion without Mr.Bruno's introduction into that literary evaluation. I think Frankenstein was meant to be a horrific tale exposing the faults of man by critizing our obsession with power; the need to be as the birds are and fly; as the fish are and swim; explore the ends of the galaxy and beyond because man is never content with what is known, what is here; they always want more. And sometimes seeking the unknown leds to ruin. This is centered around men because the majority of dictators of the past and present have been men (with the occasional woman that died before doing any REAL damage; coincidence? i think not!). If anything, Shelley is attacking men's obsession with power and knowledge; when it becomes one's obsession, it becomes one's destruction.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Mary intentionally made it so that a man created a monster in the book, I think that that is just how it happened. I think that if Mary would have done it intentionally than she would have this idea that mean have an ability to do more evil than women do, and i don't think that she thought that way.
ReplyDeleteI could be wrong, Mary shelly could have planed the creator of the monster to be a man so that she could portray man's constant want to control everything.
I do not think in any way that man would attempt to create Shelley’s monster through devious intentions. I think that if a normal man ever did try to reanimate the dead or create Shelley’s monster, it would be simply to see if he could do it. Also, with a discovery like that, there is bound to be some name recognition and possibly rewards for going along with such a huge scientific achievement, so greed could be another motive, although I’m not sure if creating a monster like that would be too good, just surprising. I realize that women were given little respect in earlier years, but I do not think that Shelley was trying to relate Frankenstein to how evil man was for putting women down. I think she was more so trying to point out the classic “don’t judge a book by its cover” lesson through the humans’ reactions to the creature, despite his actually benevolent nature. That’s the message I received from her tale at least.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe women, as a group, have more pure intentions in their imagined stories than do men. I would not categorize women as being pure and men as the opposite. I feel the purity of women is a stereotype. In the past, it was stereotypical for an individual to claim "women should be seen, not heard." Women have the capability to be just as monstrous as men. Authors, and the intentions of their imagined stories, should be viewed individually rather than be viewed by sex.
ReplyDeleteI believe the purity or montrosity of a writer's imagination depends upon his or her past. The experiences of a writer are reflected in his or her works. An individual that has faced many hardships may produce works with a monstrous nature while one with a pleasant past may reflect purity in his or her pieces.
Pure intentions can be made by both male and females. I don't think that gender matters, just the person's personality and character. I would hope that Mary Shelley didn't create such a creature to represent males. But then again, I never thought of it in that sense before.
ReplyDeleteI think Shelley's intentions were only to write a slightly creepy story. Men always think women are devious and trying to imply something other than what they say. Alright, just kidding. I agree with Gabriel's statement that it depends on personality and character rather than a person's gender. I really think Frankenstein is just a story with no underlying message but now that you have brought the idea of it being a portrayal of her view of men, I may think differently.
ReplyDeleteShelley definitely grew up at a time where women were viewed as inferior to men so, although i do not see any proof of such an accusation, I think it may be possible that this is how she felt about men. Growing up being told you are less just because of you sex would definitely make you resent those who were seen as superior although they had done nothing to deserve that title. I think it is a possibility but don't necessarily believe that is what Shelley intended Frankenstein to represent.
I have to agree with a point Andy had, it wasn't like Frankenstein was plotting and formulating this fiendish plan to raise the dead. No, he was doing it for pure scientific purposes...to prove he could really. It also tied in to his conception of life and what makes it up.
ReplyDeleteBut women can definitely be devious, just as men can, now and in that time. To aid in my point, I have employed the use of "The List Universe's" Top 10 Most Evil Women list, which may not be exactly the same as devious but is close enough for me. It includes prolific serial killers such as Elizabeth Bathory, back from the 16th century through the Holocaust and up to the 20th century. Men may have a physical edge of women but I think concerning men there is equality. In the time Frankenstein was written, there may have been another opinion though.
But back to Mary Shelley. I never thought about the roles of men and women in the book while I was reading it so this is a little new to me... I'm not sure exactly what Frankenstein represented in this view...I think that the Romantic Era definitely spawned literature and poetry that can attest to the view of women as objects of beauty and pleasure to men and not much else, such as Mr. Bruno has pointed out.
Yes, or course I think men are devious enough to come up with character's such as Shelley's tale. But in saying that I also believe women are capable of the same thing. I agree with Heather. People's imagination comes from the different experiences they have had in their life. So, again, putting aside gender anyone is capable of coming up with such a horrific creature.
ReplyDeleteI do believe, Mary, specifically made the creator of the creature a man. You get the feeling that she wanted to make a point about the way women were treated up to that point in history. And if that wasn't her intention I'd like to think it was. The more men back then that were aware that the way they viewed women was wrong, the better.
Given this time period and circumstances, I believe more people would be enthralled to read the novel if the man were to have created the Creature as opposed to a woman, perhaps why Mary Shelley uses this persona of Victor Frankenstein, but I do not believe women or men are more devious than the other in general terms. Some critics may view Frankenstein as a novel about the monstrous nature of male imagination, but from what I read, this was not the implication or purpose of the novel. Frankenstein’s intentions to create life seemed pure in his quest to seek further knowledge about life and he realized that it was a mistake to do so. He was trying to create a replica male, only bigger and stronger only to find disappointment in the looks of the creature. But instead of fixing his problems he runs away from them resulting in loss of the ones he loves dearest. This is what I found to be the nature of the novel, one should not run away from problems because upon doing so one creates further destruction and monstrosity. The intentions of women and their stories depends on the author; it seems very stereotypical to claim such ideas that women write all pure novels while men write about destruction. For a time period Mary Shelley did not put her name on the book for purposes of women not being taken seriously for things other than “looking pretty”. Perhaps, such as the monster wanted a purpose and to be recognized by its initial good nature instead of its outside appearance, Mary Shelley wanted women to be viewed by who they are instead of simply being a woman.
ReplyDeleteEileen O'Shaughnessy
I think gender has nothing to do with the mind. We may interpret an idea in different ways, but execute them in the same. Men could've just as easily created that creature, I mean wasn't it men that creaed nuclear weapons? (Probably a lame analogy, but both terrorized a large amount of people, right?)
ReplyDeleteSomeone please shine the light on something that seems dim to me.
When I first read the line "Even more humilitating, women in literature were objects to be looked at, drooled over, and admired from afar," my mind instantly leaped to the Knight's Tale. I couldn't stand how the Knights descriped in detail their true love's beauty, but couldn't give any discriptions of her intimate thoughts, actions, etc.
ReplyDeleteI don't necessarily think that men's minds are nearly as devious now as they were at the time of Shelley's writing of Frankenstein. As for women writers of the time, they clearly had more to prove than men. Earning respect for their literary works was nearly impossible. I wouldn't necessarily say that their intentions were more pure, just different than those of men. I think it is safe to say that Shelley was vying for attention to be diverted from outward appearance and onto something deeper in Frankenstein. I guess I am looking at this with the eyes of someone now. We can look back at the time period in which Frankenstein was written, and compare social norms from then to those of today and say "Oh, intellectual women were treated horribly then." If I lived in Shelley's time, I'm not sure I would have taken a step back from what was perceived as normal and say, "Shelley is angry with the way all women in society are treated." It probably would never have occured to me, but then again, since I am female, who knows if I would even be fully literate in Shelley's time?
I found that Ashley explained it for me. That Frankenstein was just a small example of the fault of man, and how curiousity most certainly killed the cat. It really isn't just man, but people in general. We're all greedy in some shape or form. Thus the seven deadly sins, as portrayed in the bible. They all sinned at some point, but they tried to make up for their faults. As Franenstein attempted to atone for his, or at least not make the creature a lady friend.
ReplyDeleteI think the Creature of Shelly's Frankenstein is the end result of what everyone looks for, male or female, immortality. The immortality Victor strives toward is more literal than is generally sought after nowadays, he seeks to perpetually extend human life, and instead creates the Creature. Most others search for their ticket to immortality in a more figuritive sense. Writing a classic novel, conquering the world, building extravegant buildings and monuments, making a difference in the world, and often through their children. As we saw in Things Fall Apart, Okonkwo was worried about his children abandoning him, leaving him unremembered and in a fate worse than mere death. Through his children he could live on, but if they abandon him he would be "truely dead." The fear of death is ingrained and primal, the obvious reaction to such fear is to attempt to find immortality, just as the obvious reaction to fear of heights, snakes, water, or anything else is to aviod what it is that you fear.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Becky. I think that men as well as women are capable of coming up with such characters as Shelley did in Frankenstein. Personality plays a bigger role in this than gender. I think that women have been given a name as a group, at least had one during this time period, that they were perfect and weren't capable of committing such acts. However, in today's society, women are capable of equal devious acts as men.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Mary Shelley meant to use a man. I think it just happened that way. But if not, then I think she has a very demented view on men as a whole.
I think the way Shelley fought for her gender was by writing a good book, not by preaching the faults of MEN or praising WOMEN. They were just people, and the main character was a man. I think she learned from her mother's mistake and decided not to preach gender to people. Maybe that was the key to her success, and the real winner for women. But of course, I wasn't THERE, so I wouldn't recognize the contemporary beliefs of the time if they are intertwined with the novel. I guess. I dunno.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that Mary purposely made the creater of the creature to be a man as to suggest women were not capable of doing something like that. I believe that both men and women have the ability to have pure intentions over their stories.
ReplyDeleteI think that Shelly created this story with a male scientist because if she had used a femaile the critics of the period would have made the story out to be a paridy of womens intellagence. they would have laughed at it and not taken it seriously because a woman couldn't possibly done something so scientificaly advanced. Therefor i def believe that she chose a male for this character.
ReplyDeleteAs someone now, I believe that the minds of men and women are devious in their own way. No one gender is more pure than the other in stories. Sure a man may not be able to create a creature quite like Shelley’s, but he would still be able to understand the sense of atrocity she attempted to convey. At one time, women’s intentions may have been more innocent than males’ due to ignorance and a lack of an education. I’m not sure that Frankenstein could represent the male imagination. I mean it PLAUSIBLE but…you know, not entirely certain.
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