So...
Good class yesterday. Those of you who missed should check out the PowerPoint on fusion.
In terms of ethics, the discussion must always be centered on choice and "the other." This topic has been a source of constant discussion and debate since people could speak. Since we had our own resident expert on ethics, morality, and values in class yesterday (Mr. Strickler), we have the benefit of his input in our conversation.
As such, I received this e-mail quote from Mr. Strickler this morning. Respond and maybe we can get a dialogue going with him on the issue.
THE QUOTE:
"What others think of us would be of little moment did it not, when known, so deeply tinge what we think of ourselves."
- Paul Valéry (French poet, essayist, and philosopher, 1871-1945)
Happy Thinking,
Mr. B
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I've had to read this quote several times now, and I'm not entirely sure I understand its meaning. But what I do know is this: somehow, ethics figure their way into this quote. Alright, ethics have to do with "the other." In the quote, "What others think of us", states clearly, this quote is about "the other." If examined, this quote explains how important "the others'" oppionion of us is highly important to most humans. Valery clearly states how our dependance on "the others'" approval would be irrevelant if we did not care so much. "Others'" oppinion DOES, in fact, change our own oppinion of ourselves. Examples are: how we may choose to dress every day, what food we eat, our application of deoderant, the list goes on and on... Our dependance on "others'" oppinion is a huge priority, determining how we act and present ourselves. Indeed, this quote is very ethical. I certainly hope this wasn't meaningless rambling, which it certainly could have been. But they're just thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI also must profess my ignorence of the meaning of this quote, but i can say what my 18 year old mind absorbed when i read it. It seems to say that what others say about us wouldn't hurt so bad if we truly didn't care what they thought. But there words cause us to look at our own self and image, which in turn causes us to feel insecure. So pretty much its saying if we become content or even proud of our true "self" or even our image, we will not be hindered by the thoughts, words, or actions of others.
ReplyDeleteIt's saying that what other people think of us wouldn't affect us so much if we didn't know what they DO think of us. But when we KNOW what they think of us, it deeply affects how we think of ourselves. Kind of like an "ignorance is bliss" thing.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the quote my mind immediately leaped to the word 'insecurities'. Do we not judge others based on insecurities we have of ourselves? I have always believed that we look for flaws in others to mask our negative opinions of ourselves. I feel that the quote is trying to portray that what we perceive as 'right' is based solely on what society believes to be acceptable. Society and personal thought have become unified based on people's insecurities to feel out of the norm.
ReplyDeleteTo understand this quote, I had to change the wording. I feel the statement means, what others think of us would hold little importance if it did not affect what we think of ourselves. Although my interpretation is extremely similar to the actual quote, I was able to better understand the statement if put in my own words.
ReplyDeleteBasically, I believe the statement to be another quote concerning self confidence. If one does not consider negative comments made by others, his or her self image will not be affected. Negativity is only strong, as well as affective, if one allows it to influence himself or herself. Various comments would be ignored if each did not affect the listener, or victim of negativity.
The quote I think means that we place value on ourselves based on the opinions of others, so that if we know how an important member of our lives is either disappointed or upset with us, it affects how we look at ourselves and how we judge what is the best course of action.
ReplyDeleteTo say that we don't care what others think can only be true to a point. There is always going to be someone's opinion that we value, or else what do we base any decision on? Can people be born with just a self-guiding compass that spontaneously evolved without help from outside sources? How do we decide right and wrong?
I think the quote means, that no matter what you tell yourself, what people say about you does affect how you feel about yourself.
ReplyDeleteIt makes perfect sense that other people's opinions affect us since afterall, most americans do hold themselves to make other people happy or to comply with other people's standards.
whenever someone says something bad about you it's never easy to forget, you may not even think it hurt you at the time and that you're "stronger" than that but then somehow the comment comes up again and suddenly you think it must be true because you heard it twice.
we base our beliefs on other's beliefs or at least try to, and i think that's what makes everybody alike in being hurt by words.
After reading this quote a few times, the main thing I thought about was that, many times, we will tend to base our actions depending on how others will view us. This may not be true for all people, but lots of people, especially people our age (young adults), will follow this manner of thinking. This concept is further defined much clearer by psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg and his stages of moral development. He believed that in the middle, or conventional, stage, people will essentially perform actions based on how others will view them. If the person wishes to be liked, he or she will be kind to others. That’s the main idea I withdrew from this quote: that what others think of us matters greatly to us and we tend to base many of our decisions on those thoughts and opinions.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading it, I got a sense that he's trying to say what Amanda was getting at. Even if you're telling yourself that you are this or you are that, why are you saying that? More than likely, it's because you're trying to eliminate something that someoneelse said thatyou weren't fond of.
ReplyDeleteWhat Greg said made a lot of sense. And if he is correct then the statement sounds true. If you go to an Elementary school and look at kids arguing, then you will notice that the exchanged words are hurting the other person...even if they are about physical appearances which are not true. Words are a great weapon and can easily cause someone else to look at themselves in the same way someone else sees them whether it's true or false....ouch...
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Amanda says also I believe As much as we try to say "what they say doesn't bother me" we still acknowledge the fact that they said something. When something bad is said about you by a professional and or well known person it is easily to be scared because of how it will affect your reputation. That’s what makes gossip so much of a big deal for some because the desire to have a good reputation. And this quote is right because if people didn’t know about what others said about you then people wouldn’t be so paranoid about what others are talking about.
ReplyDeleteI think that the quote means: if we don't think too long on what others think of us, than we wouldn't think of our self as that important.
ReplyDeletePeople care too much about what others think of them and this in turn makes them give themselves much more importance than deserved. We are not as important as we think we are. Everyone has things that are unique about them and shouldn't always be looked at as "flaws."
When people say thing about us it always affects us. Some say that they don't care what others think, but I think it's impossible to not care what others think. When someone says something to you and it's negative, but it's something you don't care that much about you still think about it and address the issue somewhat in your head. This shows that you DO care about it. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying. Hopefully this makes sense.
When I read the quote i immediatley thought about the mulitple things i try to avoid in converstaions. You know, the things you hope nobody notices about you, or the things you try so desperately to hide, physical or emotional. But, like clock work, it seems someone always pokes at that sore spot, magnifying it, and making it even more potent in your mind. But "the choice" to be affected, the ethical frustration of each person to decide whether not they'll care, depends on that person's acceptance of the facts: life is what it is, you have what you have, you are who you are. trying to change can only get you so far. The ethical thing to do is chose, but the moral thing to do is to find not only the true value of others, but also the value in you and then to accept the fact that your problems are severly insignifigant.
ReplyDeleteThe quote puts simply a very deep and ingrained part of the modern self. People are so caught up in how others view them, whether they like it or not. Though they nearly worship the individual and self-reliance, they become these great "self-reliant" individuals because they thrist for recognition. The nonconformity movement is a perfect example of how people really care about others opinions, despite their best efforts. Without the dissaproval of the "system" what are you really rebelling against. You have to do things that you know will make people THINK you don't care about what they think about you so much that you DO care what they think about you, you just aren't looking for a positive reaction.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read this quote, I had not idea what it meant. Obviously something about "the other", and something about ethics. Not only did I have to reread it many times to try to find the meaning but I had to think about it for a long time before anything really came to mind. Once I got my thoughts together though I decided that I think that this quote means that we as people have the human nature to care about the things that other people say about us.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Greg completely. If we don't know what others are thinking about us then naturally it doesn't affect us. But when we do find out what others think of us, we let it into our hearts and allow it to become the focus of our being. We allowo others words to become most important. We want to better ourselves, but not to make ourselves feel better, but to be considered "pretty" or "smart" in the sight of others.
Perhaps Valery is trying to say that here we are putting so much faith into how others view us, seeing how they probably know us best, that we do not even see how we view ourselves. If one person views you as ugly, you are going to be self conscious of your appearance, are you not? But why do we take in so much importance towards how one person sees you. You may view yourself as a beautiful person, whether on the inside or out. We can accept how others view us if their intentions are genuine, but we should not let one person’s views define our being.
ReplyDeleteI like what Brendan said about how we wouldn't care what others thought of us if we didn't know what they thought of us. I think that everyone tries not to worry about what others think of them but sometimes we can't just get over it. When we hear what someone thinks of us we sometimes change to make them think better of us. but are they really worth it? is anyone's opinion of us truly important enough that we should change ourselves for them? I don't think so. So while some people's opinions may bother us, we shouldn't let them change us. Even if we're bothered we should stay true to who we are and be confident in ourselves that we are good enough as we are and that we don't need to prove to other people that we're good enough.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kelly's blog about insecurties. Though I may not have said it in that way. The way I interpreted it was you set standards for yourself, there for you set the same standards for others, whether you realize it or not. Almost like passing judgement, whether we mean to or not. Compliments are kinder judgements that people would not look into, but once a person is insulted they automatically go on the defensive. More than likely thinking, "Why would they say that? Do they think they're god, or something?" These insecurities make us what we are, whether we acknowlege it or not.
ReplyDeleteI think this quote is kind of a response to the "sticks and stones" saying. Which, as everyone knows, is entirely false. We say words can't hurt, but of course they do, and everyone knows it. By the way "so deeply tinge" is an amazing selection of words. I wonder if that's actually what it translates to in French. But anyway, mean words hurt because we're afraid they're true, and nice words don't because we assume they are.
ReplyDeleteI think this quote means that what others think about us would not matter as much if, when we find out what they think of us, it didnt affect what we thought of ourselves. Most people are at least somewhat affected by what others think of them and it shapes many of our actions.
ReplyDeleteNot quite sure how the quote relates to ethics but…I think I’ve got this one. Truth. There is always a choice of whether you accept what someone is saying as true or not. For some odd, societal, philosophical reason, people tend to want to believe in everything they’re told.
ReplyDeleteWhen you lie to yourself you are consciously aware that you’re lying to yourself. But when someone else lies to you, you cannot be sure if they’re lying or not. Because if they are, then that opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms on the past conversations and opinions the two of you exchanged. Which would break your whole secure mindset about yourself and reality. In the end, you accept the possible lie as truth which, depending on the content, could damage your sense of security anyway.
… Valéry said it better.
That's...quite confusing. Definitely had to read that more than once.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it means that if we don't care about what others think about us, we don't really give a crap, unless you were highly self conscious. However, when you take the time and think about yourself, it's more of a deeper relevation of what you tend to pull up.
It's like the philosophy paper that we had to do earlier. You have to get a sense of what something means to you, even if it's just a self realization.
I love this quote, i hate how so many people seem to care and rely on what others think of them and whether or not they approve, and I'm guity of it too, but think, when you get a new cell phone, or you got your first car, you may have loved it till someone said "eeehh, its..... ok" then you cant stop thinking of how to make it better how to improve it and how to gain their approval, i try my best to avoid this whirlpool of death but i find it difficult a task. such is why i hate how true this statement is.
ReplyDelete